Could I have exhibited insight?
Father Jake Stops the World has an interesting post on the future of the Episcopal Church (TEC). In Will a “Two Church Solution” be Traded for Invitations to Lambeth? he quotes an article by Ruth Gledhill in the Times: Clergy seek ‘two-church solution’.
Ms. Gledhill makes an observation concerning the end of TEC as a member of the Anglican Communion and a possible union between TEC and Utrecht, observations that coinside with my own. In her blog, Ruth Gledhill —“ Articles of Faith, she makes very similar observations to ones I made. Specifically in Love in the Ruins (updated) she says:
…it is not beyond the realm of possibility that TEC could itself decide it has had enough and seek communion with another body, such as the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht. This church is in communion with Canterbury, and is liberal on women and gays. I can imagine a scenario where, should the whole thing become a much looser federation, enabling the Methodists among others to come on board, the Old Catholics could end up part of the wider Communion in any case.
Maybe it would just then become The Communion, TC, with separate bodies such as the Episcopalians, the Anglicans, the Methodists, the Old Catholics, the Lutherans and numerous others all included.
In Possibilities for the Episcopal Church (June 20, 2006) I said:
In my estimation the stage is set for TEC to break from the Anglican Communion. They have created a sort of union of the left and liberal. They have also set the stage to become the money and the power behind a ‘new’ union (see we’re doing a new thing).
I find it very interesting that Bishop Joris Vercammen, the Old Catholic Archbishop of Utrecht, presided at the convention’s June 19 Eucharist, ostensibly in recognition of the 75th anniversary of the Bonn Agreement. Utrecht has already substantially adopted the ‘ordination’ of women and is well on the way to blessings of same sex unions.
In October 2005 when Utrecht met with the Abp. of Canterbury there was much discussion on the issue of overlapping jurisdictions. There are Anglican Bishops in locales under the jurisdiction of a Utrecht Bishop. Since Utrecht and the Anglican Church are in full communion there should only be one Bishop per jurisdiction.
Utrecht used a made up, far less serious excuse to eject the PNCC from the Union (not that the PNCC wanted to remain in union with Utrecht based on Utrecht’s liberal positions).
Could TEC become the new ‘Rome for the liberals’? Could Utrecht align with the TEC? Could Utrecht disavow their relationship with Anglicanism in general and join with TEC, the IFI (who have been in on and off discussions with Utrecht for years), the ELCA and the UMC in a sort of liberal, anything goes movement?
Wow, did I scoop the Times? Did I exhibit foresight? Hey, you never know…
Thanks again to the Young Fogey for the pointer to this.
how about this. The Union of Utrecht is turned over to the PNCC, while the liberal old catholics join the liberal anglicans…hmm
There’s very few, truly Old Catholics, left in Europe. The Church in Slovakia bowed out in 2004 as well. I often wonder what keeps the Church in Poland in the Union…
I am not sure why the Church in Poland remains. Maybe it is a financial issue..
I asked that question before, but I have not received an answer. If the Polish Catholic Church (PNCC sister church in Poland) is still a member of Utrecht Union, is it still with intercommunion with PNCC? From reading God’s Field, Polish National Union just had a trip to Poland and priests from PNCC visited and celebrated Holy Masses there. What it the official relation of PNCC and Polish Catholic Church in Poland? I know they separated from PNCC under the pressure of the communist government there, but the situation is now different since Poland is no longer communist. I know Mariavites in Poland and in France re-united after the communism in Poland was abolished. I would really like to see the PNCC and the Church in Poland become one again.
Rafal,
I think you haven’t received an answer because there is isn’t a clear answer. I’ve never heard anything on the subject, other than conjecture or rumor.
I can only go by what I see or hear, and there isn’t really anything on the subject out there. That sort of reduces me to guessing, and that is why I don’t really comment on the issue.
Have you checked the Polish Church’s website at all? Since my Polish is rather poor, perhaps you will see something there that I am missing.
All I know is that the Polish Church and the PNCC are inextricably tied together by history and tradition. I think any contact between the Churches is based on their common history and their catholicity.
Speaking of Catholicity, I was looking at some documents from Utrecht’s 2006 Bishop’s Conference. They, for their part, keep searching for some legitimate “Old Catholic Church†in North America (hehe, they’ll be looking a long time amongst the vagantes). They seem to want to recognize the ‘Old Catholic Church of British Columbia’ (2 bishops, 8 priests, 4 deacons, and 1 appointed deacon? – 3 parishes and 4 missions, including two that are ‘Anglican’ in BC and Washington State) in a sort of conditional status, at least until they adjudge their orders and catholicity.
What shocked me, beyond their search for vagante weirdness in Canada, was their apparent willingness to allow deacons to administer the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. They said:
Let’s see: ordaining women (they just ordained a woman ‘deacon’ to the ‘priesthood’ in Italy), latching on to the vagantes and the worst of the Episcopal/Anglican debacle, struggling with the very concept of marriage (blessing homosexual ‘unions’), and now poor sacramental theology and practice.
I cannot see how the Polish Church can possibly countenance these compromises. I think the ball is in their court. They are independent and they must decide their own course, much as the Slovaks and the PNCC did.
We can only pray.